In Ann Hui’s, All About  Love,  two women (Macy and Anita) who once dated as teens cross paths again, years later.  Although their lives have taken varied journeys, both find themselves unexpectedly pregnant.  At the same time, the connection they had felt years before is still there and they are drawn to each other again, ultimately going against the expectations society has for them as well as the ones they have for themselves.

Coming to Toronto for the Festival was a chance for Hui to present her film (which opened to very mixed reactions in Hong Kong) to a wider international audience. While here, she took the time to talk about what drew her to the story and the experience of making a film far removed from her own comfort zone.

Fiona Garda : Congratulations on the film.  How did it feel hearing you were going to be part of the official selection for the Toronto International Film Festival?

I was very happy because I like the festival a lot.  You know, to be chosen helps the film.

One of the things the film festival prides itself on is that the public tends to be quite film savvy.  The audience tends to be pretty open and appreciative of films from around the world, seeing the different types of stories being told.  I was wondering what you thought of their reaction to yesterday’s screening especially since, in the Q&A you mentioned that in Hong Kong opinion has been pretty split.

I think the audience appreciated it, talked about it.  I’m not sure they all liked it very much. But they were willing to think about it and talk about it.   Which is all I could ask for.  They were very fair.

You had mentioned (with the response in Hong Kong) that at least people were feeling something, which is better than having no reaction at all.

Yes.

Although the subject matter of the film is pretty serious, there are times when you use a rather light tone.  In your Q&A you mentioned you were being deliberately flippant.  When you first read the story (and obviously you eventually wrote a light comedy based on it), did you always plan to take a more comedic approach or did that come later during the writing process?

When we first read the story (because it’s based on fact), we thought it sounded very funny.   So I thought let’s do something funny instead of doing something more tragic.   Not to say this is just a lesbian comedy.  Comedy is very difficult to do.

It’s all stylized – the timing, the dialogue.   To be honest, the dialogue in this film (and you won’t know because it’s Cantonese) but I don’t think it’s as good as it should be.   It’s not as witty as we hoped.   That’s extremely difficult.    We tried our best.  But maybe the funny part is lost on this audience because it’s [the dialogue] is very Cantonese.  We found it really shocking in Cantonese.  People in China don’t talk openly about sex.

Which raises the question about the representation of sexual orientation in film.  More often than not mainstream films treat any sexual orientation that isn’t heterosexual as the defining characteristic of a character – as if they’re only about being bisexual or lesbian.   This film doesn’t do that.   You present it as one of the many (normal) facets that make up who a character is.

That is something which puzzled the audience, I think, locally.  Like, “wha…wait…I seem to be watching two normal women.”    I think it says something about my psychology because I was very conscientious with my research about the lesbian way of life—their outlooks and relationships.  I tried to understand and tried to be accurate.  So much so, treading so carefully, it was kind of like the discrimination turned on its head.  I was [almost] too careful.

There’s a very interesting scene at the beginning of the film where Macy defends her bisexuality within the lesbian community.  It’s an issue I’ve seen come up here in North America in the gay/lesbian community – that if you’re bisexual it’s because you haven’t made a choice yet.   They’re then further ostracized within that community at times.  I thought it was interesting that although it’s a normal part of the characters lives, they still deal with these issues.

Discrimination is like that. There’s always something.

Another thing I noticed in this film is the recurring theme of what women want versus what they’re supposed to want.  A lot of it comes from societal expectations.  For instance, you’re supposed to want to be in a committed relationship, you’re supposed to want to have kids.   You flip this on its head by making the family unit more than a father, mother and kid.  Even at the end after they’ve had their babies, Macy (whether jokingly or not) is thinking about life beyond this one.

This is why, with the script, I agree with all the different viewpoints.  Maybe it’s too abstract, too much about wish fulfillment, but it’s very human.   To see that activists and idealists also have weaknesses, they can be selfish in love too.  It goes beyond a choice of sexual orientation.

The challenge is there, especially in Chinese society.  Even I got a little bit flabbergasted when the script has the characters discuss giving your wife an orgasm.  I was wondering what the Chinese would think, if they would feel uncomfortable talking about it because it’s something which is very ingrained.   I mean, I belong to the former generation and we don’t talk about sex.   Talking about sex makes me uncomfortable.  And I’m making a film where that’s all they talk about.  And I feel for me that’s also a kind of liberation.   I mean, if you don’t want to talk about it, that’s your freedom.   But it’s okay to talk about it.   But it’s also not mandatory (to talk about it).

Yes.  It’s a kind of an abstract conviction.  I can’t talk about sex all the time, but feel it should be done.

Were there any reservations on the actors parts about taking on these roles because of the subject matter?

Sandra [Macy], well, both women are known non-lesbians.  Both are happily married to very open men.  Sandra liked the role very much.  She definitely understands the discrimination against bisexuals.  She personally endorsed the film to the press, saying it should be a sex education film and that parents should bring their kids to watch the film.  And when I think about that, it’s okay.

Vivian [Anita] was actually attracted to the role because it’s the opposite of her image. Also, she had something in common with Anita because Anita is known to have her feet in her career so she feels a certain kinship with the character.  Obviously she feels it’s a very challenging subject and needed to be done in a way that was engaging.

You’ve worked in both film and television.   Do you have a preference?

I can do either.

Any upcoming projects?

I’m going to be returning to safer ground about old people in an old peoples home.  Which is nearer my own experience…and very safe!   No need to be on tenterhooks about whether I’m right.